Switching to PAGs
Survey Summary
Are PAGs worth the expense and potential technical issues? According to TLT readers, the answer is yes but only in applications requiring a specific level of performance that cannot be achieved through conventional lubricants. The majority of readers, however, say today’s mineral-based products can solve most industrial-lubrication problems for less money. Problems readers incurred with PAGs include solubility, incompatibility with existing or previous lubricants, high-temperature performance and price. When readers did report issues with PAGs, they tended to be with worm-based and toothed gears. Many readers cited problems flushing the previous lubricant and getting end-users to follow proper lubrication procedures. While TLT readers still see PAGs largely as specialty niche performers, most predict moderate to steady growth during the next 15-20 years. Said one: “Good oxidation stability and high VI are excellent selling points.”
We haven’t had any problem with PAG lubricants.
Fully removing the previous lubricant.
None.
Worm gearboxes—incompatibility with existing lubricant.
Avoiding mixing of lubricants, awareness, knowledge and compliance.
Cost and additive solubility have been the two biggest hindrances. We’ve mainly been evaluating PAGs for use in compressors.
High-temperature performance and frequent changing of lubricant.
Compatibility issues with seals, paint in gearboxes and OEM oils in both worm gears and other speed-reduction boxes.
Cross contamination with a PAO, typically in a worm gearbox that was factory filled with PAG.
Compatibility, seals and cost.
PAGs are still hard to find in the U.S. When you find them, they are very expensive.
Compatibility and cleaning the old lubricant.
We are a lube distributor but never had a customer who was interested in switching to a PAG. We do have customers who use it. Mostly worm drive applications. Also have customers using it in natural gas compression.
OPAGs are oil soluble and cause fewer problems. There is still an issue in handling during lube blending with any non-oil soluble PAGs.
PAGs are expensive lubricants. And they do have solubility and water issues.
Completely flushing the system.
Incompatibility with saturated hydrocarbon lubricant, seal- and paint-compatibility problems.
We don’t use PAG-based lubricants. I know we tested some a while back but didn’t find any particular benefit.
Insufficient dielectric strength for hermetic compressors.
Incompatibility with other fluid types and some types of materials of construction.
Customer habits. Worm and toothed gears.
Most of our issues arise in our portable vacuum dehydration system—we have to clean the entire system and make sure there is no residual PAG remaining in the system.
Price.
Fluid compatibility and price.
None, if application is reviewed and inspected prior to conversion. All types of gearing types are considered for PAGs as they provide the best overall lubrication for these applications.
Compatibility with previous lubricant; seal and paint compatibility. Mostly air compressors and gearboxes.
Compatibility and flushing from non-PAG fluids.
Basically none. When the lubrication engineer provides cost and performance evaluations to support the conversion.
Foaming. Solved by adding an antifoam.
Ensuring proper lubricant procedures are followed.
Has the greater efficiency of PAG lubricants been worth the higher price and effort to change over?
Yes
56%
No
44%
Based on responses sent to 15,000 TLT readers.
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Q.2. How do you see the use of PAGs expanding in the next 10-20 years?
They’ll become more popular.
PAGs will continue to be relatively specialty lubricants. However, increasing numbers of engineering systems will require a specialist lubricant. Therefore, wider application.
We’ll see more use in all types of industrial and automotive lubrication systems.
Expansion.
If it can remain cost effective, then it has a possibly successful future in heavy/rotational equipment that operates at high temperature and pressure. I believe there are still base/synthetics blends available at the moment that offer both competitive pricing and performance.
Their use likely will continue to proliferate throughout specialized applications like wind turbine gearboxes, but in more general applications traditional synthetics likely will remain dominant.
They will be the most widely used but only if their additives are improved upon.
PAGs could replace almost all mineral oils even engine oils.
Increased sales.
Steady growth.
If the oil companies were not so greedy and charging such high prices, synthetics would be the mainstream lubes. Oil companies are ripping off the pricing, and there is no need for them to be charging the ridiculous prices they charge except plain greed. Yes, synthetics are better quality, so charge more—but not the ridiculous prices they are charging now.
I think they will be more widely used as they become more readily available.
Jury’s out.
Moderate expansion in select areas of industry.
Slow growth in niche applications.
Growing in every industry.
Twenty-30% growth.
Increase in turbines.
They will grow as they are a very good option in certain applications such as high temperature and, depending upon additive selection, are environmentally sensitive.
In 20 years I predict usage of PAGs will be significantly different than today. Less certain is whether it will be more or less. Or maybe it will be the same.
No change.
Likely moderate but steady growth.
Slow increase of about 1% a year.
I believe usage will increase slightly as technology changes, but I don’t foresee a major increase.
Minimal growth.
Limited to very specific niche applications.
I see the PAG market growing significantly as they are looking to expand it into engine fluids and potentially automobiles.
Will be used in more sealed-for-life or long-term (five-plus years) lubricant change outs.
Growth due to long life and high efficiency. More competition will improve accessibility and price competitiveness.
I believe that it will be driven by the gearbox OEMs. As they continue to recommend PAG oils or PAOs, customers will follow their specification.
At least a 25% increase.
The biggest benefits from PAGs our organization has observed are:
Reduced operating temperatures
17%
Lower energy consumption
14%
Longer lubricant life
33%
Best balance of cost, performance and lubricant life than all alternative fluid types
36%
Based on responses sent to 15,000 TLT readers.